"Defend Our Marines" Replies to Jason Washburn

David Allender of Defend our Marines addresses Jason Washburn's and the Times On Line's Haditha claims.

Defend Our Marines is the most extensive storehouse on Haditha related material anywhere. It is a shame that members of the IVAW didn't follow what the site has been presenting in detail fora long time, as opposed to what they did and still do, in Robin's words:

The Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) wasted little time tossing the Haditha Marines under the Humvee.

Finally, Some Detail from Perry O'Brien, IVAW!

I've waited quite some time for this. In the Times On Line article published today, Perry O'Brien gave out some (but not enough!) detail of what he has been saying he will testify about at Winter Soldier. Three months ago, Adam Kokesh printed an e-mail from O'Brien on his site, in which O'Brien wrote:

“I will be testifying to the illegal use of Afghan corpses for medical "practice," which I witnessed while serving as a medic in Afghanistan.”

To me that always left a lot up in the air. Even within Islam it is permitted for medical personnel to utilize cadavers for study and training, but even so, as is the case here, such can still be done illegally. From the Times On Line:

In January 2003, O’Brien was deployed to Afghanistan for eight months. While he was there, he had many experiences that made him uncomfortable. Several times he witnessed an Afghan civilian die on the operating table after treatment from a mobile military surgical unit. Rather than prepare the corpse for the family, O’Brien witnessed the surgeons and the medics use the body to practise on.

“One doctor said, ‘Come up and feel his heart!’ This is what a heart feels like.’ ”

Half the platoon, if not more, participated. Daniel Paulsen, 27, was there and corroborates this story. There are photographs as well. Someone had grabbed O’Brien’s digital camera and taken photographs of the heart and the medics walking around and poking it. These photographs were taken for fun.

Eventually the chest of the corpse was closed up. “It was a total violation of our medical oath to use a corpse for medical training,” says O’Brien. “What’s particularly terrible is that these were all doctors that had practices back home – they were familiar with the law and the Hippocratic oath. There was such a huge disconnect between the way they treated Afghans and the way they treated American patients.

O'Brien needs to be questioned in some detail on this. The story says the photographs were taken for fun, but the surefire implication was that the doctor was using the opportunity of an open chest to let a group of medics learn what a human heart fells like! Why might that be a good thing? Simply because those medics might just find themselves in a situation with a soldier, a Marine, an Afghan civilian adult or child or even an enemy insurgent with a traumatic chest wound, say from the shrapnel of an IED explosion, miles from a hospital, in which it may help to save a life if the medic can recognize that heart muscle!

O'Brien says “It was a total violation of our medical oath to use a corpse for medical training...”

Yet cadavers are used for medical training for doctors and nurses every day! And this was not the needless dissection of a corpse. The way this is described, the heart of that dead patient was exposed already. Unless O'Brien can give a lot more incriminating detail than that, rather than an atrocity or a war crime or even a severe act of criminal behavior, doctors may indeed have broken rules and even possibly laws but did so in the interest of saving lives by using whatever methods were available to instruct people in what is not readily available, such as, what the human heart muscle feels like.

For a very long time, centuries, people have known that battlefield surgery and medical treatment are unlike any other. They are the busiest high crime big city ER on steroids with explosions and shrapnel thrown in. The M.A.S.H. units were famous, long before the television series, for both their life saving unorthodox approaches to treatment in dire circumstance as well as their irreverent behavior.

People have long recognized that levity in the pressure cooker and even the horror are not due to a lack of decency. They are often simply how good people try to cope with what is hard.

This story needs to be flushed out or down!

I have a relative who managed a big city ER for years. Army Special Forces has agreements with hospitals around the country. SF medics in training would go to those, often to the ERs, and wait for the case to come in that needs the chest to be opened. If lucky, it can be a scheduled open heart surgery. Openingthe chest is always major surgery. Sometimes it's sceduled, sometimes they wait for days. If one comes in, and that's not a sure thing, the medic trainee scrubs and enters the surgery. With the surgeon and medical staff present, he opens the chest. Then he backs off and the regular staff do their thing.

Why do they do that? Because SF medics on teams will quite often operate in places where there are not only no medical facilities, but in places where extraction to such facilities is often not possible, or has to wait. If someone is shot in the chest and dying, an SF medic may have to open that chest in the field, wherever that field is.

There are no doubt a great many people who have had open heart surgery around who have had their chests opened by SF medics in training. If they knew that, some might not be happy about it. Yet every protection is there. The medics are trained for the procedure in the same classroom manner as physicians, and just like physicians, the first time they do so it is supervised by a surgeon and medical staff and in a controlled environment.

It saves lives. But it is not what people expect!

O'Brien really needs to give details of this "practice". Was it "practice" for saving lives?

Is IVAW Keeping Silent on Another Fraud?

That man among men and former Prez of the IVAW Milwaukee chapter, who has the obvious inside track into what's going on inside IVAW, the Big Punisher, aka Sgt. DeWald, writes this at blog, Chickenhawk Watch:

“Have we [IVAW] had problems with credibility before? Oh, hell yes. But that [Jesse MacBeth] incident (and the possibility that there exists another former IVAW member who can be proven to be a fraud) demonstrates only what damage a rogue member can do when he's improperly vetted and unsupervised."

"Another former IVAW member who can be proven to be a fraud"? A month ago I wrote a post entitled WSI 2008: Will Jimmy Massey Testify?. I wondered whether a founder of the IVAW, Massey, who had been and continues to, well, peddle lurid U.S. atrocity tales around the world, would testify at Winter Soldier. IVAW's Army Sergeant didn't answer that, but obviouslyy did not like me focusing on Massey and tried to change the subject.

In the post IVAW: Questions and Answer section on IVAW credibility problems, I had this about Massey:

There is also Jimmy Massey, who served with the Marines in Iraq, and was a co-founder of IVAW. About Massey, IVAW says "After a hard fight he was discharged and has since been telling people the truth about the war in Iraq." Massey had told lurid atrocity stories to several media organs. However, after Ron Harris of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch exposed Massey's charges as false other news organs like the Modesto Bee and Sacramento Bee retracted the Massey claims they had published. Eventually the AP also did so, after using Massey as a source for several stories, and having to publicly admit that AP never even sought to verify Massey's claims with their own embedded reporter who was on the scene at the time the fabricated events supposedly took place. The career in atrocity stories that Massey began in the US, as Ron Harris called it, has moved offshore and continues.

So, is Jimmy Massey no longer a member of IVAW? Big Punisher? Army Sergeant? Anyone at IVAW? Massey was very thoroughly exposed, and it would make sense for IVAW to distance itself from him - but if so, why no public statement by or about a very public man very publicly associated with the group he co-founded, by either Massey or IVAW? Would that be because in so announcing a separation, IVAW would be admitting, tacitly at least, that Massey's stories of American atrocities were frauds, and, thatIVAW's statement about him that he "has since been telling people the truth about the war in Iraq..." is wrong!

So, IVAW: is Jimmy Massey still a member, and if so, will the chief peddler worldwide of gross American atrocities and co-founder of IVAW be testifying at Winter Soldier? If he is no longer a member, does IVAW still stand by the claim that Jimmy Massey was "telling people the truth about the war in Iraq"?

Over to you, IVAW.

And just for giggles, anyone else getting a bit of a kick out of Big Punisher writing:

"what damage a rogue member can do when he's improperly vetted and unsupervised."

IVAW: Cheapening the Stolen Valor Act for Gain!

This is IVAW buying credibility on the cheap! Past President of the Milwaukee Chapter of the IVAW and one of that organizations leading intellects and thinkers, Jonathan DeWald, more recently known as Big Punisher, writes:

"If we catch anyone lying or attempting to lie about their service, military achievements and combat experience at, or in preparations leading up to, Winter Soldier, we will be notifying federal authorities in the interest of having offenders prosecuted under the Stolen Valor Act..."

This is pure nonsense and a smokescreen!

After the Jesse MacBeth debacle, IVAW has, at the least, learned to actually check if their members really served where they say they did, and they will most certainly have been checking those testifying at Winter Soldier.

There are critics and skeptics of Winter Soldier who have indeed gone on about "phony soldiers", meaning that IVAW may have bunch of folks who have not served. That is not the problem nor the likely point of IVAW's weakness, which is why that kind of overplayed concern plays into IVAW's hands.

During the first WSI in 1971, there were some testifiers who could not be tracked down, just as there were folks who were tracked down by name and unit who claimed to have never been there and that others had used their identity. That is, overall, a fairly minor issue in the whole 1971 WSI history and effect.

The large and even overwhelming number of testifiers at the first WSI were indeed Vietnam Veterans. Fake veterans wasn't the real or even a really significant problem. The problem was: were the stories they told of widespread and commonplace atrocities and war crimes true or not, and would they assist investigations to determine the facts! As Scott Swett showed in "Newly Discovered Army Reports Discredit “Winter Soldier” Claims", it was the false claims by real veterans that were the problem and the smear.

There was a Mayor of Chicago, William Hale Thompson, who would threaten to punch British King George V in the nose if the monarch ever came to that city. That appealed to a goodly number of Irish American voters in the area. However, Thompson knew full well there was virtually no likelihood of the King of England coming to Chicago, so it was false bravado and a cheap political trick.

IVAW plays the same game. The serious questions about Winter Soldier have always been whether the testifiers to atrocities, war crimes and repugnant behavior by the troops will actually give the details necessary for the claims to be investigated and cooperate with legally required investigations, so as to determine guilt or innocense, truth or falsehood! That was the first WSI problem, and is likely to be this one's also.

The Stolen Valor Act is not applicable in these matters, which is why IVAW suddenly has the courage and moral wherewithal to invoke it. If a testifier falsely claims to have been awarded a Purple Heart for a wound received in Afghanistan, and he didn't, or wasn't ever deployed to that theater, the SVA can be applied with consequences. However, IVAW's Jason Washburn can claim as he did in the Times OnLine, that Haditha was not an isolated incident, but:

“It’s the one that just happened to be uncovered.”

If he cannot substantiate that charge, and is not under oath or made the claim in a legally binding report, affidavit or deposition, there is zero penalty under the Stolen Valor Act or any other law if he gave false "testimony"! IVAW credibilty on the cheap, by invoking an act passed to protect the valor of those who served, so IVAW can smear others who served and serve. See Question and Answer Number 4, for more of the same. Or IVAW member Mike Blake's:

"The killing of innocent civilians is policy…It's unit policy and it's Army policy. It's not official policy, but it's what's happens on the ground everyday. It's what unit commanders individually encourage."

Can Blake back that up, with details, like date, unit, place, event and a signature? Whether he can or not, the Stolen Valor Act is not applicable.

Cheap, shoddy trick to buy false credibilty. Anyone else wondering if IVAW has sought to have Jesse MacBeth charged under the SVA? Did they care about - the stolen valor of soldiers, Marines and airmen who showed that valor, or their own reputation when Jesse was blown? With MacBeth, the SVA does apply, since he falsely claimed to have been awarded medals he never qualified for - while incidentally representing IVAW!

Put up or shut up, IVAW. It's not too late for you folks to seek to have your former speaker and activist charged. That'll likely get Jesse back in the news, though. But since you now recognize the value and justice inherent in the Stolen Valor Act - we'll all just stand by and watch you act on your new found principles.

And piercing through the smokescreen (as usual!), Robin at Chickenhawk Express wonders whether IVAW's new found respect for laws extends to the reporting requirements of the UCMJ! I mean, IVAW wouldn't be hypocritically self-serving about respect for the rule of law, would it?

WSI: Atrocities, War Crimes and Murder Back On Top

UPDATE: Robin at Chickenhawk Express is on the story!

The photo on the right, with that "We Came, We Saw, We Murdered" is on display at the IVAW home page.

For some weeks now IVAW's Army Sergeant has been trying at this site and others to tell us that WSI is not going to be about such things, but will be simply a chance to give veterans a space to simply tell their stories. Sorry, Sarge, but that is not holding water. This is from the TimesOnLine today, March 2:

"In 1971, the protest group Vietnam Veterans Against the War gathered at a hotel in Detroit. More than 100 veterans talked about the atrocities they had witnessed in southeast Asia...The Vietnam vets, spurred on by the court martial of Lt William Calley, who had ordered the infamous My Lai massacre, wanted to turn a tide too – against public opinion, to demonstrate that the execution of hundreds of innocent villagers in 1968 was not an isolated incident as so many believed."

See the recent article “Newly Discovered Army Reports Discredit ‘Winter Soldier’ Claims” at FrontPageMag.com.

"This month, for four days in Washington, DC, beginning on March 13, there will be a second Winter Soldier gathering...Organised by the protest group Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), US veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan...will testify about their experiences. They will present photographs and videos, recorded with mobile phones and digital cameras, to back up their allegations – of brutality, torture and murder...they seek to shine a light on the bigger picture: that the Abu Ghraib prison regime and the Haditha massacre of innocent Iraqis are not isolated incidents perpetrated by 'bad seeds' as the military suggests, but evidence of an endemic problem."

TimesOnLine repeats the now thoroughly discredited "revenge rampage" slander of the Haditha Marines, and delivers it in such a way to imply that they got that from IVAW's Jason Washburn:

"It was a squad in [Jason Washburn's] unit that went on the rampage after their vehicle was hit by an improvised explosive device (IED)."

Wasburn goes on to reveal that while the Haditha incident has troubled him, he was not troubled enough to actually follow the story, and that is no doubt because the myth serves the IVAW purpose better:

“I have a lot of feelings about this incident. A friend of mine from my first two tours was in that squad. He was the guy they gave immunity to to testify against the squad leader. The people on the ground are looking at serious prison time. Like life. The people who were giving orders were only relieved of command. And I don’t think that’s right.” Washburn says Haditha was not an isolated incident. “It’s the one that just happened to be uncovered.”

The Times goes on to claim:

"At the Winter Soldier (1971) event, veterans’ stories will be corroborated by other veterans; backed up by the volume of testifiers who have witnessed the same things – in different units, years apart and in different countries."

Note the odd missing details, like who, when, where, stuff like that. Note how IVAW seriously wants the details that can lead to the truth to be presented:

"There will be up to 100 veterans and, at present, 80 of them have submitted testimonies...Nobody is permitted to name anyone below the rank of captain."

And the money quote:

"After the hearings, all the testimonies will be entered into the congressional record."

IVAW really does expect that to happen again, with no oaths, no cooperation with legitimate investigations, no legally required reports, depositions and/or affidavits! From the statements of signatories to the Appeal to the Senate Armed Services Committee that such an injustice not happen again:

• “As both a retired Marine Gunnery Sergeant and one who served during Tet-1968 I ask that you please do not allow our Brave Men & Women serving in Harms Way in Iraq and Afghanistan to go through what we Vietnam Vets went through in returning home.” Lawrence B. Hoffa, SASC Petition Signatory

• “It is especially important that, if claims of illegal acts are made against US military personnel, the claimant be subpoenaed for sworn testimony.” Dr. Marc Fries, SASC Petition Signatory

• “Never again let our veterans feel their Country doesn't stand behind them. Thank you.” Gini Squire, SASC Petition Signatory

• “We will NOT STAND for any repeat of what our veterans went through in Vietnam. NEVER AGAIN!” Robert Caissie, SASC Petition Signatory

• “As I vividly recall The Congress is charged with providing the Common Defense of this Republic. Do the Right Thing... for those that have served honorably in the Uniform Services of this Nation. Unsworn testimony in the Congressional Record by malcontents? God Save this Republic from them.” Maj. S. M. HARTNETT USMC, Ret, SASC Petition Signatory

• “The honor of those who serve our country should not be allowed to be stained by these "sunshine patriots." Please do not allow another generation of soldiers to be found guilty in the court of public opinion without signed depositions and witness statements.” Ron Allen, SASC Petition Signatory

• “As a Vietnam Era USMC Veteran, who also had a sister in the Corps and three brothers in the Army then, and lost a family member in Kuwait in March 5, 2004, I can not stress enough my support for this petition. Our "Troops," "Veterans," and Our "Nation" deserve accountability based on facts not innuendo or political expedience!” Brenda S. Ramos, SASC Petition Signatory

• “As a retired 23 year special ops veteran, I demand that the US government not allow a repeat of the 1971 winter soldier fiasco of liars, anarchists and socialist politicians. We veterans and active duty military will be closely watching how our collective reputations are protected, or not, by you the government of the US.” Timothy L. Woods, USAF, MAJ, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I'm a proud Veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom!” Paul Couturier, SASC Petition Signatory

• “As a commissioned officer veteran of the Vietnam War, I ask that the honorable members of the US Senate take action to prevent lies similar to those told before you after the conflict in Vietnam from tarnishing the honor of our men and women involved in Iraq.” Gary J. Honold, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I am a VietNam Vet. I was offended with John Kerry and the likes of him back i n 1971 and am offended with the so-called Obama story on the lieutenant in Afghanistan. Give us date, times and names. Not usual barracks B.S. talk, but real facts and none of this political rhetoric and war stories without substance. Without facts of dates, times & names, its pure fiction. I didn't like being labeled a killer back then and I know our soldiers now don't either. If you make a public claim, then back it up under oath with a penalty of perjury if you don't. Let's keep the politics out of it and let our troops do their jobs.” Ishmel Taylor, SASC Petition Signatory

• “It is about time the risks, the service of our military overseas is reviewed, evaluated and protected by honest criteria, instead of lies, innuendo and rhetoric that is intended solely for political purposes.” Tom Page, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I am a Korean War Ex-POW and a 2-tour veteran of the Vietnam War with the 101st Abn Div. My generation was disgraced by people of the same ilk as the IVAW. Do not let the IRAQ Veterans suffer the same fate as the Korean & Vietnam Veterans did.” Edwin C. Lundquist, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I am a Combat Vietnam Veteran 1965-1967 We do not need the same garbage to happen to the Gallant Men and Women that are now serving. See what happened to our Country before. It took 35 to 40 years to over come the crap. God Bless our Country and the Men and Women who are now serving.” Johnie Lee Qualls, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I am a former member of the USAF who served honorably from 1973 to 1984. We must honor our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coasties. They stood up for us by serving voluntarily, Now we must honor them by standing up for them and doing what is right.” Charles F. Gait, SASC Petition Signatory

• “Unless sworn testimony can be proven to be accurate, this testimony should not be included in the Congressional Record. When the Vietnam Veterans Against the War provided testimony and it was included in the Congressional Record, Congress dropped the ball and failed to investigate. When it was independently investigated, many of those who testified [were] proven to be liars. Don't let this happen to another generation.” Vickie Perkins, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I beg you... Do not let this go unchecked. Not again.” Dan Clifford, SASC Petition Signatory

• “The Armed Services Committee should be present for the entire proceeding and have access to those testifying. Any allegations against our troops, be it equipment shortages to any alleged atrocities should be aggressively challenged and thoroughly investigated. No one should be able to make any claims unless they are willing to back them up and cooperate with an investigation. I would prefer that they be sworn in before they testify and held liable for any false testimony.” Daniel Recine, SASC Petition Signatory

• “If testimony regarding the use of steroids by Major League Baseball players rises to the level of requiring sworn testimony in order for the statements to be entered into the Congressional record, certainly claims of widespread atrocities, indiscriminate and unwarranted killing of civilians and destruction of property and infrastructure, torture of detainees, mutilation of corpses and the illegal use of Afghan bodies for medical "practice", rampant sexual misconduct, racism and drug/alcohol use by American soldiers and more should also require that such statements be attested to by sworn statement and legally authenticated affidavits.” Bruce, SASC Petition Signatory

• “It is our duty as Americans to protect the honor of our troops from slander and defamation at home while they are serving us abroad.” Dan Maloney, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I am the sister of a Medal Of Honor soldier killed in Viet Nam and it breaks my heart to see once again our soldiers in Iraq vilified. They are America's best and they are giving their lives for us and the people of Iraq. Please do what is right.” Patricia (Gertsch) Leggate, SASC Petition Signatory

• “No testimony should be taken without accountability and proof; and certainly not entered into the Congressional Record without that proof. I can't believe that was allowed to happen in 1971!!!” Richard Miller, SASC Petition Signatory

• “Dearest Honorable members of the SASC, Right your wrong from the past. My father and uncles hung their heads at the admission of their service because of you. Right your wrong. Be proud of your veterans, not suspicious.” Thomas Chandler, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I request that the members of the Senate Armed Services Committee not allow what happened to a previous generation of veterans be allowed to happen to another and even be aided, as it was then, by the United States Senate.” MSG ROGER H. COOPER USA(RET) , SASC Petition Signatory

• “As a Vietnam War Army volunteer and partially disabled veteran, I have lived through this ugly lie for nearly four decades... almost my entire adult life. Don't let this travesty destroy the public perception of our honored military again. They have more than earned their honor with their blood, their sweat, and the tears of their loved ones.” Donald Castella, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I am in full agreement with this petition, and trust that the honorable members of the committee well ensure that these accusations by the IVAW are fully investigated and dealt with appropriately.” Timothy S. Kindred, SASC Petition Signatory

• “I am a combat veteran 1966-1969. Please do not allow the slanderous travesty that happened in 1971 to once again occur. Our Soldiers and Marines deserve better from their legislators.” Robert l Monahan, SASC Petition Signatory

• “Past Commander American Legion Post 291 Newport Beach, California If we as a country order our troops into harms way, it seems to me we have an obligation to stand with them in matters of ethics and integrity among other things. Those who are willing to testify, should be allowed to do so under oath and for the record. The record should not include unverified information from those not sworn to tell the whole truth.” Paul Curtis, SASC Petition Signatory

IVAW: Questions and Answers

Scroll down for answers.

1. How large is the membership of Iraq Veterans Against the War?
2. Is military service in Iraq or Afghanistan required for IVAW membership?
3. Did Jesse MacBeth join the IVAW under false pretense?
4. Have members of the IVAW experienced credibilty problems before WSI?
5. Is there any validity to the charge that IVAW is providing propaganda and even recruiting incentive for those who are killing our troops?
6. Is Winter Soldier Going to be about Widespread US Atrocities and War Crimes?
   

1. How large is the membership of Iraq Veterans Against the War?

• IVAW claims over 800 members. If all were veterans of OIF (Iraq) and/or OEF (Afghanistan) they would represent one out of every 2,000 or so members of the military who have served or are serving in those theatres, or 1/20th of 1%. While IVAW members often speak of a widespread support for their oppostion to the war among service members, many tens of thousands of members of the military who had been deployed to Iraq or Afghansitan (or both) have reenlisted knowing they would be redeployed. The number of those who have done so are many multiples of the IVAW total membership. If the entire population of the United States (300 million) were made up of those who had served or were serving in OEF or OIF, the entire membership of IVAW could reside in Provo, Utah.
  

2. Is military service in Iraq or Afghanistan required for IVAW membership?

• No. The IVAW only requires that a person served some time in the active duty military or Reserves or National Guard after September 11, 2001.

3. Did Jesse MacBeth join the IVAW under false pretense?

• Yes and no. While MacBeth certainly mislead the IVAW about his actual military experience, his forty four days in the Army until he was released from service before completing boot camp did and still does qualify him for legitimate IVAW membership. MacBeth resigned from IVAW: he was not removed. If IVAW had removed MacBeth for lying it may have presented the organization with a problem. See next question.
  

4. Have members of the IVAW experienced credibilty problems before WSI?

• Absolutely. The most notorious IVAW credibility disaster was Jesse MacBeth, who was a member for months, appearing and speaking at IVAW events and being interviewed by anti-war media which published his atrocity stories before he was exposed as a complete fraud as a result of the infamous video.

• There is also Jimmy Massey, who served with the Marines in Iraq, and was a co-founder of IVAW. About Massey, IVAW says "After a hard fight he was discharged and has since been telling people the truth about the war in Iraq." Massey had told lurid atrocity stories to several media organs. However, after Ron Harris of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch exposed Massey's charges as false other news organs like the Modesto Bee and Sacramento Bee retracted the Massey claims they had published. Eventually the AP also did so, after using Massey as a source for several stories, and having to publicly admit that AP never even sought to verify Massey's claims with their own embedded reporter who was on the scene at the time the fabricated events supposedly took place. The career in atrocity stories that Massey began in the US, as Ron Harris called it, has moved offshore and continues.

Note: IVAW did a recent "scrub" on their site regarding Massey.

• Stories and claims change. There is Camilo Mejia who was the first active duty U.S. soldier to refuse deployment to Iraq. He had returned from Iraq on leave and deserted, and was eventually convicted for that and served nine months in military prison. In an interview in March 2005 Mejia spoke about US soldiers engaging in what he believed was torture of Iraqi detainees. When asked if he had done those things himself, Mejia replied "Not really." By the following August, when interviewed by Dahr Jamail Mejia had changed that to "I tortured guys...". Even earlier at his court martial in 2004 Mejia only spoke of an "expectation" that he might be faced with illegal orders if he returned to Iraq, with no claims that he had "tortured guys" or had been required to engage in illegal activity while there.

• In August 2005 IVAW member Harvey Tharp was interviewed along with several other group members by Dahr Jamail. Of that discussion, Jamail wrote "I type furiously for three hours, trying to keep up with the stories each of the men shared….about the atrocities of what they saw, and committed, while in Iraq." Tharp was quoted by Jamail as saying “Most of what we’re talking about is war crimes…war crimes because they are directed by our government for power projection.” Last month Tharp was quoted in the Yemen Times as saying he had never personally witnessed any American atrocities in Iraq, but he had come to “know about certain cases”.

• Member Adam Kokesh was at one time a paid activist for IVAW and was part of a group of George Washington University students which had engaged in what has properly been called a "fake hate crime". Kokesh and the others fabricated and circulated a phony "Hate Muslims? So Do We" poster on campus with contact info on it pointing to the conservative Young Americans Foundation. The predictable ire of university administrators and others was, as intended by Kokesh et al, directed at the innocent party. The story was picked up by Islam Online (Cairo) and presented as an example of anti-Muslim hate in America without pointing out that the poster was a fraud.

5. Is there any validity to the charge that IVAW is providing propaganda and even recruiting incentive for those who are killing our troops?

• The answer is an undeniable yes. This February Harvey Tharp was quoted in the Yemen Times saying this just before he admits that he had never seen such things himself while in Iraq:

"I’m going to Washington, D.C. for the winter soldier hearings from March 13-16. Fifty members from the Iraq Veterans Against the War will testify to war crimes they witnessed or even participated in and I’ll be there in support"

• Truthout quoted the Guardian about a march that involved IVAW members to the effect that:
  

"Just outside New Orleans, the sudden appearance of a reporter from al-Jazeera's Washington office electrifies the former soldiers. It is a chance for the vets to turn confessional and the reporter is deluged with young former soldiers keen to be interviewed. 'We want the Iraqi people to know that we stand with them,' says Blake, 'and that we're sorry, so sorry. That's why it was so important for us to appear on al-Jazeera.'"

Blake was quoted at an IVAW fundraiser and in a video for their Winter Soldier Investigation saying:

"The killing of innocent civilians is policy…It's unit policy and it's Army policy. It's not official policy, but it's what's happens on the ground everyday. It's what unit commanders individually encourage."

6. Is Winter Soldier Going to be largely about Widespread US Atrocities and War Crimes?

Hard to say for sure. The initial IVAW statement from late last year about the upcoming Winter Soldier can still be found at Firedoglake, Polizeros, US Labor Against War, Courage to Resist, Common Ills, Ruth’s Report and on and on and on! That and later IVAW statements to the media were atrocity and war crime-centric, citing the 1971 WSI and My Lai and such and it was common to find the number 100 or so used for the number of testifiers making a clear linkage to the 1971 WSI atrocty fest. However, more recently the IVAW Winter Soldier site has changed its statement and played down the war crime-atrocity theme as well as the number expected to testify. That has more recently been estimated as about fifty. It may be that IVAW are not getting the numbers they thought and hoped for and specifically the number of "war crime" testimonies. It was also becoming clear to members of IVAW by January that there would be a lot of attention paid to the testimony as it was being given by bloggers and milbloggers, which debunked stories by Jesse MacBeth and Scott Thomas Beauchamp. Even so, however, one can still find IVAW members recently stating that WSI will be largely about atrocity and war crime testimony. And more of the same.

IVAW may have to deliver. They have been using the war crime and atrocity theme extensively at the fund raising events they have been holding for Winter Soldier, ginning up the expectation of that among their supporters.

"During the initial invasion we killed women. We killed children. We senselessly killed farm animals. We were the United States Marine Corps...and we left a swath of death and destruction in our wake all the way to Baghdad..."
Matt Howard, Iraq Veterans Against the War

"We would declare zones 'weapons-free'...and shoot everything that moved...weapons-free means you can shoot anyone and that's exactly what we did...tanks went in and shot everything that moved: men, women, children, donkeys—it was a turkey shoot."
Matt Howard, Iraq Veterans Against the War

"...the American G.I., they are taught from the day that they land in Kuwait and every moment that they move north into Iraq and every moment they’re in Iraq, they’re taught to dehumanize Iraqi people. This term “haji” is very prevalent...to the U.S. military, it’s a term of dehumanization, one that’s used so that the American G.I. can kill without question and who can follow an order to kill someone without question...”
Geoff Millar, Iraq Veterans Against the War

"The killing of innocent civilians is policy…It's unit policy and it's Army policy. It's not official policy, but it's what's happens on the ground everyday. It's what unit commanders individually encourage."
Mike Blake, Iraq Veterans Against the War

"...I’m going to Washington, D.C. for the winter soldier hearings from March 13-16. Fifty members from the Iraq Veterans Against the War will testify to war crimes they witnessed or even participated in and I’ll be there in support… No, I didn’t personally witness any [atrocities], but I came to know about certain cases."
Harvey Tharp, Iraq Veterans Against the War

Stand by for more. Post under construction. Last edited 03022008

Bloggers & Milbloggers at Winter Soldier

Blogger & Milblogger Winter Soldier Attendees

The following bloggers and milbloggers will be attending and/or live blogging from Winter Soldier, divided for simplcity if not total accuracy into event Cheerleaders and Skeptics.

Cheerleaders:

• Adam Kokesh blogging from Revolutionary Patriot, Marine Corps. Sgt served with the 3rd Civil Affairs Group, Fallujah, Iraq in 2004.
• Army Sergeant blogging from Active Duty Patriot, active duty Army.
  

Skeptics:

• Rurik blogging at Veteran American Voices – Silent No More, Combat Engineer (12B20), Vietnam
• Thus Spake Ortner blogging at The Sniper, active duty, combat infantry veteran (11B10) of OEF (Afghanistan)
• John Lilyea blogging at This Ain't Hell But You Can See It From Here, SFC Army, retired after twenty, Infantry, Airborne, CIB, Bronze Star Medal and Valorous Unit Citation
  

Non-Attendees Who Will Be Covering and Blogging About the Event:

• Robin blogging at Chickenhawk Express, which site is a storehouse of IVAW info (use the blog search for "IVAW")
• Zero Pondsdorf blogging at Veteran American Voices – Silent No More, joined the Naval Reserve in high school and went regular Navy immediately upon graduation, spent four periods of approx. six months each with the Navy in the Gulf of Tonkin, Vietnam (pilot rescue, naval gunnery support and engaging shore batteries).
• Cao at Cao's Blog, who will be providing podcasts.

Milblogs To Watch As WSI Unfolds, For Precision Targeted Verbal Willy Pete:

• Mudville Gazette
• BLACKFIVE

Note: if you are a blogger or milblogger who should be on this list, post the relevant info in the comments, and as I check time to time I will possibly get it on the main post.