Tuesday, February 5, 2008

Is IVAW Retreating on WSI “Atrocities?

Are they going to reposition the Winter Soldier Investigation on Okinawa? Is a preemptive blogosphere “Surge” working?

In the comments to my post “Reply to Army Sergeant”, IVAW’s ArmySgt made some statements that on their own might not be that significant. As Sarge has said, he is not an official spokesperson nor in the leadership at IVAW.

However, while I almost brushed by Sarge’s comments as his personal view, a quick look at IVAW’s own official site seems to show what anti-war Democrats might call “repositioning”, and what others simply call - “retreat”!

Sarge wrote:

“Also, IVAW does in fact claim that Winter Soldier is about veterans telling their stories. Go ahead and look to what it says on the website, what we are actually putting out…WSI is not about charging American soldiers with atrocities.”

And…

“…the fact is that while WSI II will have some threads in common with WSI I, the only major one is that of soldiers and veterans speaking up about what they believe. Beyond that, there aren't too many similarities-it is an entirely different war, after all, and we have many different reasons for opposing it.”

WSI II was not going to be about atrocities? Who knew? Well, the official IVAW Winter Soldier page does have this:

“Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan

Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan will feature testimony from U.S. veterans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, who will tell the hard truth about what is really happening, day in and day out, in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The four-day event will bring together veterans from across the country to testify about their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan - and present video and photographic evidence. In addition, there will be panels of scholars, veterans, journalists, and other specialists to give context to the testimony. These panels will cover everything from the history of the GI resistance movement to the fight for veterans' health benefits and support.

In 1776, Thomas Paine wrote: “These are the times that try men’s souls. The summer soldier and sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.”

In 1971, a courageous group of veterans exposed the criminal nature of the Vietnam War in an event called Winter Soldier. Once again, we will create a space for veterans to make their voices heard.

Americans have heard from the generals, they've heard from the politicians, they've heard from the media - but they haven't heard the truth. Americans must understand the reality of the wars our government is spearheading in order for our democracy to truly function. When we tell our stories, it is America's duty to listen.”

Well, okay, nothing about atrocities, and the only thing similar to WSI I, as per Sarge, might be “a space for veterans to make their voices heard.” But, THAT’S A CHANGE! THAT’S A VERY BIG CHANGE!!!!

It used to read:

“In 1971, over one hundred members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) gathered in Detroit to share their stories with America. Atrocities like the My Lai massacre had ignited popular opposition to the war, but political and military leaders insisted that such crimes were isolated exceptions. The members of VVAW knew differently.

Over three days in January, these soldiers testified on the systematic brutality they had seen visited upon the people of Vietnam. They called it the Winter Soldier investigation, after Thomas Paine's famous admonishing of the "summer soldier" who shirks his duty during difficult times. In a time of war and lies, the veterans who gathered in Detroit knew it was their duty to tell the truth.

Over thirty years later, we find ourselves faced with a new war. But the lies are the same. Once again, American troops are sinking into increasingly bloody occupations. Once again, war crimes in places like Haditha, Fallujah, and Abu Ghraib have turned the public against the war. Once again, politicians and generals are blaming "a few bad apples" instead of examining the military policies that have destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan...”

That statement, with links to the same now-changed IVAW page, can be found at Firedoglake, Polizeros, US Labor Against War, Courage to Resist, Common Ills, Ruth’s Report and on and on and on!

So “atrocities”, “crimes”, “systematic brutality” and My Lai not being an “isolated incident” are all gone NOW, replaced by “experiences”, “panels”, “scholars” and “space”!

What about the “hours” of atrocity stories IVAW members told Dahr Jamail years ago?????

Sarge also wrote:

“You also seem confused on what Winter Soldier will entail. Not every person speaking will be speaking about "crimes". They will be speaking the truth of their experiences, that the American public may not have had the chance to hear. Some may speak to crimes - but not all will.”

Well, I got that, like, “atrocity” idea from IVAW members quoted in the media and its supporters!

Here’s James Circello’s (IVAW) letter to President Bush inviting him to WSI:

“In March, the Iraq Veterans Against the War…will make their way into the streets and buildings of D.C. to tell the American people what your war was done to them and the people of the Middle East…They will testify, much like the Vietnam Veterans Against the War did over 30 years ago. They will tell the things you try to keep hidden.”

Uh, the first WSI was all about, like, supposed war crimes and atrocities. Circello missed the memo!

Matt Howard (IVAW), in the recent "Military Ecourages War Crimes" piece is quoted as saying:"The policies that the military engages will create situations, create dynamics, create, ultimately, atrocity."

Mike Blake (IVAW), same interview, said:

"The killing of innocent civilians is policy…It's unit policy and it's Army policy. It's not official policy, but it's what's happens on the ground everyday. It's what unit commanders individually encourage."

The article then went on to state:

“Blake and Howard were among four veterans speaking at Watertown's Different Drummer Cafe, in a preliminary event to the 'Winter Soldier' gathering scheduled in Washington, D.C. in March.”

VFP, the guys under whose umbrella IVAW gets its 501(c)3 tax exempt status has this:

“Maine Veterans For Peace invites you to a fund raising party to benefit Winter Soldier, the public war crimes investigation being organized by Iraq Veterans Against the War...”

The VVAW has not yet gotten that word:

“This spring, a main priority for Vietnam Veterans Against the War is to support IVAW as they conduct their own Winter Soldier Investigation…War crimes have been identified, and once again, politicians and generals repeat history by blaming 'a few bad apples' for such atrocities, rather than examining the military policies that destroyed Vietnam then and are destroying Iraq and Afghanistan now.”

Neither has Sir! No Sir! Military Lies which still has “Return of the Winter Soldier: Iraq Vets Prepare Atrocity Testimony

The Indypendent only yesterday claimed “The goal of hearings, named the Winter Soldier Investigation: Iraq and Afghanistan, after the 1971 Vietnam-era investigation of the same name, is to show that systematic government policies are to blame for the myriad atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

I could go on and on, but – it appears that IVAW is largely backing off the atrocity-war crime theme. I believe there are a combination of reasons.

There is no longer any mention of the “history's largest gathering of U.S. veterans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan…”. I don’t think their solicitation of “war crime” and “atrocity” testimonies got anywhere near a number big enough to establish credibility for “systemic” claims. Add to that, some of their known members have already established credibility problems.

Here’s the WSI schedule as it is showing up on the Net, and note that is has 12 total hours of testimony compared to 12 hours of panels and briefings. The Indypendent reports:

“During the series of panels, multimedia presentations and testimony, more than 45 current and former soldiers plan to describe the indiscriminate killing and injuring of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, the use of chemical weapons, the torture and killing of detainees, rape — within the military itself and against Iraqi civilians — the denial of medical care to the injured and the mutilation of the dead, and other war crimes. Iraqi and Afghani civilians, as well as reporters not embedded with the military, are scheduled to verify many of the stories that will be described by the soldiers.”

Not the numbers they hoped, especially from an organization which claims 700-800 members. It doesn’t even appear that 10% of their own membership will testify! And as Sarge said, not even everyone testifying will testify to such as atrocities and war crimes! If they get fifty, that is one out of every 30,000 individuals who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And I do truly hope that a reporter not embedded with the military who will “verify” these stories is IVAW’s long time co-conspirator Dahr Jamail! Between now and next March, and before WSI, Jamail will have less credibility than Baghdad Bob!


Then too, it has been made pretty clear this WSI, unlike the last WSI, will get a lot of determined concurrent scrutiny. There’ve been claims (see Circello’s letter above) including at this site, about such as GOE folks shutting them down, which is nonsense. It’s not demonstrations and counter demonstrations that got to them. It is thousands of people, Internet connected, many with military backgrounds and contacts with active duty folks, debunkers – who gave them the shakes. That veritable army of interested parties would set up a roar demanding details that could not be silenced and would not go away. Scott Swett and Tim Ziegler’s “new media” only had to basically reach for the keys to get things shaking, much less start the engine! Still got a full tank!

Like the other Surge, certainly not the time to let up, anyone! But I think the wafting smell in the air is – victory! This generation of soldiers and Marines will not be successfully smeared as were those of the Vietnam generation.

And ladies and gentlemen, I wrote earlier about the rift between IVAW and some of the rest of the anti-war left. War crimes and atrocities were the flash and pizzazz that was to get the big media headlines and stories that were to follow. Those "panels" of "scholars" and such are the types of things the anti-war left has been doing for years to over flowing crowds of eight or twenty! If IVAW is not delivering on that big "war crimes/atrocities" theme, after asking the entire rest of the anti-war left to stand down at the fifth anniversary of the Iraq invasion, it'll be a nasty cat-fight! The only real use the institutional hard left has for these IVAW veterans, as veterans, will be gone.

116 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good to know someone is reading their fine print and keeping them honest Denis.

BTW, wasn't the number "100" being touted not so long ago?. Now we're down to 50. Funny thing what some sunlight can do.

Denis Keohane said...

Yes, anonymous! From IVAW member Adam Kokesh's site, an e-mail sent by Perry O'Brien, the Testimonial Team Leader for WSI:
http://kokesh.blogspot.com/2007/12/winter-soldier-is-coming.html

Kokesh: Below is an email written by a friend of mine who is having a much more active role than myself in the planning of Winter Soldier, and I will let his words speak for themselves:

"Dear Friends,
As you may or may not know, Iraq Veterans Against the War is currently organizing an exciting campaign called Winter Soldier: Iraq andAfghanistan. This March, over one hundred members of IVAW will gather in Washington DC to testify to the war crimes that they observed or participated in while deployed overseas. The goal of this testimony is to condemn military policies and challenge the liberation narrative being fed to the American public, not to implicate individual soldiers. Personally, I will be testifying to the illegal use of Afghan corpses for medical "practice," which I witnessed while serving as a medic in Afghanistan...please forward this e-mail on to others.
Best, - Perry Perry O'Brien Testimonial Team Leader Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan" perry.obrien@gmail.com Posted by Adam Kokesh at 2:33 AM


That "This March, over one hundred members of IVAW will gather in Washington DC to testify to the war crimes that they observed or participated in while deployed overseas." kinda also answers Sarge's question about where I got the ide that WSI testimony was to be about war crimes!

Denis Keohane said...

Okay, just have to point it out...

If you go to Kokesh's site, after the e-mail from Perry O'brien, there are the comments, including this one:

"Anonymous said...

You are so strong, never 4get that. I am so sorry that u had 2 witness such horrible acts. I have seen terrible things from the war in Iraq & Afghanistan, courtesy of Youtube & the Islamic State in Iraq. The videos are deleted again and again, but I will never 4get~ If it were not 4 the 'Insurgents' postings, the U.S. would never 'see' the real war. Peace-
December 8, 2007 11:54 PM"

Islamic State [of] Iraq is Al Qaeda associated!
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/islamic_state_of_iraq.htm

They are the folks who threatened to kill, and did assassinate some of the members of the al-Anbar Council of Tribes that turned against Al Qaeda.
http://www.juancole.com/2007/09/jihadis-threaten-to-kill-leaders-of-al.html

Kokesh's supporters have interesting tastes! Note how the writer sees both Kokesh and the Islamic State of Iraq folks as the same, 'insurgents'.

Army Sergeant said...

Good lord, Denis, you are prolific.

While I'm not suggesting that my statements be taken as official IVAW policy, as I am not an official spokesperson nor on the board or holding any elected position, I'm curious why other member's positions /are/ taken as official IVAW policy.

You can't have it both ways.

James Circello is not on the board. Mike Blake is not on the board.

Also, as I've had to tell Zero, according to my information, that schedule is wrong. However, if people opposing Winter Soldier want to use the incorrect schedule to plan, I'm certainly not going to email them and tell them so. I will say though that while at least a few of those panels are I believe incorrect, panels include testifiers. There is no panel that is without testifiers.

Nobody 'gave us the shakes'. IVAW does things based on its membership. It's not a top-down approach, it's a bottom-up. The person who wrote the initial website may not have been fully in the loop. I'll be the first to admit the website has issues, including under-reporting our members and chapters. When Winter Soldier is over and I have space to breathe, I'll send an email to the webteam.

But the correct definition of Winter Soldier is up now, and I'm surprised you're complaining about it. Does it really bother you?

We're not putting on Winter Soldier for anybody but servicemembers, veterans, and maybe the American public. We're not putting it on for the rest of the anti-war movement, and IVAW doesn't fall into any one category on the political spectrum. We're doing this for us. And I really don't care if you think some people will be unhappy that we're about vets telling their stories. It is, after all, what I see as the most important piece.

Denis Keohane said...

Hi Sarge,

Just to say, I'm glad, truly, that my bombast hasn't driven you off!

"But the correct definition of Winter Soldier is up now, and I'm surprised you're complaining about it. Does it really bother you?"

Sarge, IVAW and it's members are all about getting a or several messages "out there". Members are constantly speaking to organs that will quote them, including on radio and in print and electronic press organs. They also, and I understand the potential difficulties on your side, have an official website. They are an advocacy group making public advocacy statements. That's what I follow, Sarge! If the message changes, it's noteworthy.

"We're not putting on Winter Soldier for anybody but servicemembers, veterans, and maybe the American public."

What's up now says its for the American public and it is our duty to listen! I'm doing so, and responding.

Anonymous said...

"it's a bottom-up."
That's exactly the image of the IVAW I've seen demonstrated so far.

Bottom up as the dhimi braying to Mecca. Bottom up as the punk awaiting his top. Bottom up as the exhibitionist misfit with nothing to show but his arse.

Anonymous said...

Just my little family of 4 and 10 friends will be down in DC 13-15 of March to be part of GOE.....doesn't matter which day they "testify" on.....there will be counter demonstrators to counter the likes of Wesley Clark.

Never again.....never again will anyone be able to disparage the troops and the hard tasks they have at hand. It will never be the 70's again and everything that is said will be checked and verified and set right if need be.....NEVER AGAIN!!!!

Anonymous said...

Fellows,

the Maine GOE group is looking at chartering a bus to come down and put the lie to these "winter soldiers" and their supporters.

I agree that NEVER AGAIN should these traitors be allowed to use our military men and women as stepping stones in their quest to turn this great nation into a socialist state.

John Kerry should've been strung up by his own intestines for starting all of these vicious lies and enemy-enabling propaganda myths.

Those who "testify" should be required to show prood of their vclaims: dates, photos, names, units, etc, or told to sit down and STFU.

If they didn't have the guts to come forward at the time and press charges against those who they claim did these terrible things, then why all of a sudden did they get a spine?

Anonymous said...

denis
thank you for your tireless work in keeping track of the ivaw.

i have been to protest a number of their fundraising events and i will be in silver springs to oppose them there.

james said...

dennis and the gathering of eagles
I am the blog master for military lies and I feel a need to respond to your using me as a source for your critique of active duty sergeant. Military lies make no claim to speak for IVAW, what I try to do is provide up to date information as I find it. I want to thank you for bringing the fact IVAW have updated the information on their site as I will be adding it tonight.
I feel a need to comment on the supposed schism between the antiwar movement and IVAW. As far as I am concerned the needs of the civilian movement pales when balanced against that of the GI Movement. We have nothing to lose by opposing the war, except for time and sleep. GIs and veterans, as evidenced by Adam Kokesh's recall, have put their futures on the line. So if IVAW ask for us to respect their right to occupy the center stage, we have to respect their request.
As for the anonymous blogger who threatens the hearings with disruption by the Gathering of Eagles, I am sure you fill the participants with fear. I seem to remember that the first time I heard of your organization was at the height of the Gingrich Revolution, when you used to call for patriots to gather in Washington and protest for Clinton's impeachment. Even then you could not muster more than a handful of fools. How Many of you signed up to fight in George's wars? If all of you did, and have a different truth to tell than IVAW, register as particpants. If as I suspect none of you did, stay home and play World of Warcraft.
James out!!!!!

james said...

dennis and the gathering of eagles
I am the blog master for military lies and I feel a need to respond to your using me as a source for your critique of active duty sergeant. Military lies make no claim to speak for IVAW, what I try to do is provide up to date information as I find it. I want to thank you for bringing the fact IVAW have updated the information on their site as I will be adding it tonight.
I feel a need to comment on the supposed schism between the antiwar movement and IVAW. As far as I am concerned the needs of the civilian movement pales when balanced against that of the GI Movement. We have nothing to lose by opposing the war, except for time and sleep. GIs and veterans, as evidenced by Adam Kokesh's recall, have put their futures on the line. So if IVAW ask for us to respect their right to occupy the center stage, we have to respect their request.
As for the anonymous blogger who threatens the hearings with disruption by the Gathering of Eagles, I am sure you fill the participants with fear. I seem to remember that the first time I heard of your organization was at the height of the Gingrich Revolution, when you used to call for patriots to gather in Washington and protest for Clinton's impeachment. Even then you could not muster more than a handful of fools. How Many of you signed up to fight in George's wars? If all of you did, and have a different truth to tell than IVAW, register as particpants. If as I suspect none of you did, stay home and play World of Warcraft.
James out!!!!!

Anonymous said...

James -

I'm sorry to let a little thing like the facts get in the way of your post, but how could you claim that the first time you heard of Gathering of Eagles was "at the height of the Gingrich Revolution" when that organization didn't even exist prior to February 2007?

For your information, most of the members, and all of the directors, of Gathering of Eagles are veterans, and that includes OIF/OEF vets. I am unaware of IVAW having issued any invitations to GoE, Eagles Up, Vets for Freedom, or any other veterans group that could cast further doubt on their credibility and motives, nor do I expect that the veterans in those organizations would choose to associate themselves with an organization (IVAW) whose leaders and members have been guilty of personal misconduct (desertion, smuggling firearms, insubordination, etc.), defaming their fellow servicemen and women with phony accusations of "war crimes" and misrepresenting their service records, amongst other things.

The next time you feel like discussing a subject you know nothing about, why don't you save it for your own blog instead of wasting Mr. Keohane's bandwidth.

Army Sergeant said...

Going back here through Blackfive's reference, I realize I had never answered it. Actually, we had I believe one Eagles Up and one VFF member present at Winter Soldier, and they had the opportunity to have more.

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